Designing a new restaurant

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Paterson on March 30, 2009 at 3:24pm

Even though your post is vague...all I could see were Red Flags while reading it.

I suggest you read this blog post
http://www.fohboh.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1411008%3ABlogPost%3A27...

...and have your partners read it as well. The comments are a gold mine too.

You state that your partners have no experience, and that you have deli/cafe experience.
Full service is a completely different world.

...and you can't even agree whether to hire a designer?

There are many talented (and experienced) chefs, operators etc who could design a restaurant in their sleep, even though none of them would consider themselves 'designers'.

To think you could read a book or two, then design a restaurant......that's just foolish.

Consider throwing your money in the fireplace instead....at least it will give you warmth.

Remember this one thing....you can't undo poor design just like you can't undo a bad location.

I see you're a new member (right up there on the border too...nice area).....and I'm not trying to beat you up...but please...wake up!

There's a ton of talent here at FohBoh and this type of post will likely generate a lot of responses, so let me be the first to say..."Get as much professional help up front as possible".
Otherwise, in 6-9 months, you'll be paying 3-4X more to have someone come in and fix all your mistakes.

Permalink Reply by Chef Joe DiMaggio, Jr. on March 30, 2009 at 3:57pm

YOUR ALREADY STARTING OFF WITH A NEGATIVE, HOW SAD!!!!..Get new partners and hire a proper firm, make the chef your partner. If you cannot afford to do this, you cannot afford to own, run and operate a restaurant. No Book will ever help, it's almost comical, maybe I should write a book called "Restaurant Design For Dummies" it may exist, no offense, just don't do it.

That's the Triuth young lady and I'm sticking too it.....Chef Joe DiMaggio, Jr.

Permalink Reply by Chef Joel M Ingegno on April 4, 2009 at 11:34am

Joe

"Ditto

I could not have put it any better...

Joel

Permalink Reply by Steve Paterson on March 30, 2009 at 4:18pm

http://www.fox.com/fod/play.php?sh=nightmares

I'm not a huge Gordon Ramsey fan, but this link above needs to be watched. It's the famous Cafe 36 episode of Kitchen Nightmares.

I sincerely hope we don't get to watch an episode like this about your pub in a couple years.

The kitchen was so poorly designed that even after he tried to fix the restaurant, the Boh still couldn't execute. Wrong equipment, not enough proper equipment, etc.

....and another family's life savings...down the drain.

Chef Joe's words should be taken as gospel. He's trying to do you a favor.

Permalink Reply by Tammy Pearce on March 30, 2009 at 4:52pm

Everyone, thank you so much for your replies and insights. I too have watched kitchen nightmares and I am going to heed your warnings and advice. Yes our deli and a restaurant is different. We plan on having a fire pizza oven, fish & chips (we are on the coast), and other brew pub fare, nothing spectacular but if we ever do want to expand I'd like that option. Take care.

Permalink Reply by Howard Appell on March 30, 2009 at 7:22pm

Based on the cast of characters in the partnership I would use a designer to create the brewpub. The money you spend on the designer will be pennies compared to the money that will be spent correcting errors or in design changes.

The other option is to see a foodservice equipment supplier with a design staff who will design the project for a fee and then credit the fee back to you if you purchase the equipment and supply package from them. Don't do it yourselves. I have opened hundreds of restaurants for my customers when I was a dealer and mfg. rep and you have a toxic mixture of partners now. Get together and use the expertise of a professional or don't waste you precious time and money. I know this sounds harsh but it's true.

Permalink Reply by Jim on March 31, 2009 at 10:15am

If you don't have your Chef already, find him/her.
They will have the information you need for designing the kitchen.
I recommend not using an equipment salesperson to decide which equipment you need.
While there are a few who will have your best interest at heart, more will want to sell you what makes them the most money, not what you need.
The big corporations operate with the mindset that most restaurants fail within the first 18 months, so get what you can out of them.
Not exactly the best relationship.

Again, you need to find your Chef.
Too often I have seen a kitchen, menu, concept all put in place, and then they hunt for their Chef, only to find that they have unnecessary equipment, are missing key equipment (I once saw a place that was "ready to open", then hired the Chef, only to be asked "where are the cold tables?"), or have far more expensive equipment than needed, or they don't have enough storage, etc. to pull off their concept.

Permalink Reply by Howard Appell on March 31, 2009 at 11:19am

I have to disagree with you on the dealer designer aspect of your post. The designer is just that and every job he or she does has their name on it. I designed many restaurants for my customers and never did I bump up the package because I worked with the chef and owners and got their input and they had an idea as to what they needed but needed help in the flow of traffic and placement of equipment and exhaust packages. Designers Design and salespeople sell.

Permalink Reply by Jim on March 31, 2009 at 11:23am

I'm trying to figure out how your post relates to mine.
I never discussed designers, only salespeople, and I didn't generalize and state that they all acted in the negative manner in which I described.
I clearly stated that some salespeople with operate without considering your best interests.
Some.
And I never discussed designers.
So what exactly are we disagreeing on?

Permalink Reply by Jason Sheets on March 31, 2009 at 12:40pm

It's always exciting to hear about a new restaurant concept start up; and I have to say it's refreshing to hear others understand the value a design professional brings, both boh and foh. There is some reference material/rules of thumb out there to help you get a handle on such things as: target # of seats per sf, general flow patterns, materiality, etc., but none that will allow you to plug in information and return to you a succesful restaurant.

I'm probably beating a dead horse at this point, but.....

As existing restaurant owners, you clearly have the experience to reprogram yourselves to operate a larger/new market concept. I'm sure you already understand that, you don't just provide food; you provide an experience. An experience that your patrons take with them when they leave, and hopefully, look forward to when they come back (and tell their friends about). That experience is mainly comprised of the food, the service, and the environment. And I anticipate you are experts on 2 of the 3. The environment should express, support, and reinforce your brand, identity, and offering. A good designer will ensure those things happen.

We've found most owners have an early general vision of what they want their space to ultimately be, or certain elements that they desire to go in it, but simply don't understand how to make it all effectively come together, or worse, don't realize they lack the skill until things are built.

If the added cost of the designer is a/the driving concern, I would heed the words of the other replies. A rule of thumb we have found to be pretty accurate is the 1-10-100 rule. It goes like this: If a change you make costs $1 during the design phase, the same change will cost $10 after the design is complete and $100 once construction has begun. It's simply best to solve as many items/issues as possible up front, so you don't pay heavily for them later or sacrifice/compromise the final product.

A good designer or restaurant architect should be able to coordinate and integrate all the budget parameters, engineering systems, equipment, fixtures, logistics, code/permit criteria, and construction required to achieve a great finished product.

I wish you the best of luck!

Permalink Reply by jeff galle on March 31, 2009 at 3:01pm

champs americana is a great start,they companyhad two owner and designers that left and started a pub called brew city pub they both are great design need a chef i would love to apl,27 yrs in they food service

Permalink Reply by Tammy Pearce on April 2, 2009 at 3:22pm

Too Funny Robert (the Vegas comment). No they don't have the money or the control. Yes partnerships can be bad I agree. But all in all we have the same vision and I just wanted to tap into this network to gain some insight (be careful what you ask for right? lol)

I have a dear friend who is a chef and who has managed two successful restaurants and is coming in to offer a consult to us all. I am heading all of your thoughtful suggestions and greatly appreciate them all, thank you.

Take care,

Tammy

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